So I'm watching this town hall...

[R13]

I'll guarantee you no one is going to be getting anywhere close to Obama with a pistol on their side.

Free speech is a right both indoors and outdoors.

There is a guy who is outside with a pistol stapped to him, they were showing the vid on Fox and MSNBC earlier. I do doubt he'll be allowed that close and that he has a sniper assigned to watch him, but I don't get why you would bring it into a crowd/protest and to the one he's at. Actually I do know, it's for attention and nothing more.

[CoeburnCane]

The "irrational" protest is a long and time honored staple of the left. I didn't like it then, I don't find it tasteful now that it is coming from the right, but as long as no laws are broken it's just as American as apple pie and baseball.

Let me ask you this then--if this is a peaceful town hall meeting to discuss issues that the people care about, and people come to yell threats and call names with nothing at all to add to the discussion...what should happen?

Should they be asked to leave? Should they be allowed to do it and nothing come of these meetings?

We agree it's free speech--completely and utterly agree there. But when that right of free speech is abused (like any right can be), and the practice of that right by one person infringes upon the same right of others such as speaking at these town halls...what do you do? Nothing? Chalk it up to free speech and say to those being infringed upon, "sorry, you can't talk today b/c they're yelling louder than you and expressing their rights in a more outlandish way than you are".

That just ain't right.

[Gotch]

Concerning the pistol, I know a guy who carries one everywhere, pretty rational guy in most ways, but yeah he is trying to make some sort of political statement with it too.

This is not equivalent to shouting fire in a crowded theatre. That can and actually has resulted in mass trampling deaths, it's a safety issue. This isn't.

[Gotch]

Although it's not idea for the dissemination of information it just has to be dealt with calmly and rationally, if you handle it like I saw Arlen Specter do in a couple of clips earlier as opposed to the way the Ga. congressman did you will eventually win most people over.

Sometimes our freedoms get in the way a smooth transistions. Just the way it is.....

[CoeburnCane]

All I know is that these people being bused to the meetings across the country by the GOP PAC's like Americans for Prosperity, I didn't know/think they were dumb. They show up at these things, open up their mouth to shout nonsense and drown out other concerned citizens who also deserve the right to speak freely, and remove all doubt in my mind as to how dumb they are.

It's like the guy who showed up to one of these rallies with a sign that read "SAY NO TO GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE"...wearing an Anthem/Blue Cross/Blue Shield polo & khakis. You can't get more biased than that. Where do you think this guy was from? Just another concerned citizen, or placed there by BC/BS? This guy was a relatively younger guy standing in the middle of a bunch of senior citizens trying to get them to chant w/him. If the guy wants to ask a question of a congressman/senator/president...then go ahead in the context of the town hall procedure. No need to incite chants and scare the elderly with his agenda's talking points.

All I know is that people are showing up in mobs acting violent and threatening people. If I threaten you in public, and a police officer hears a complaint from you, I can be taken in on harrassment charges. That's what a lot of these people are doing. It's not Abbie Hoffman leading these protests, it's the GOP PAC's, the insurance companies, and the pharmaceutical companies. It's not grassroots inspired, it's corporate funded. Pretty big difference...

[R13]

Concerning the pistol, I know a guy who carries one everywhere, pretty rational guy in most ways, but yeah he is trying to make some sort of political statement with it too.

This is not equivalent to shouting fire in a crowded theatre. That can and actually has resulted in mass trampling deaths, it's a safety issue. This isn't.

This guy could be a nut or this guy could be a perfectly rational guy who wants to make his statement, but what about the guy next to him?

YouTube - Protester seen with gun outside Obama town hall


That's the vid I seen. Is it his "right"? Yeah. Doesn't mean it isn't incredibly stupid. It's out in the open, he or anyone else can grab it and start firing(not even talking about Obama, but the crowd across the street maybe). That's a huge safety issue, especially with these heated protests.



And Specter handled it a lot better than I was, that meeting is the whole reason I thought about this thread. It was pretty bad in there, he kept his cool and others have to considering what they have to deal with. These claims just continue to get worse and worse, I know good and well that's it's a smear tactic though. It's who is speaking out in this manner that's the problem, they aren't concerned citizens.

[Biggin]

OK, my first point is this has been happening for years now. People are paid and ushered to events specifically to voice an opinion or make a statement about their beliefs. Its a time tested practice of disruption by organization.

I will not try and crucify the right for doing something that both sides has been guilty of doing.

But I will fault the right for falling into the trap set by these insurance companies.
These people are nothing more than pawns for those big corporate suits, they think they are being good party members but in reality they are getting used hard and put up wet.

It is sad that people are stupid, and fall for these things, especially when it could be very beneifical to the country.
I also think if people come to an open event like that and are extremely distruptive and make a scene, they should be forced to leave.
its not a freedom of speech issue.
if they want to stand outside and yell and protest, sure thats fine, but when you are distrupting an event for pure spite, they should be kicked out.

ill analogize how this isnt a free speech issue.
if i go to a PTA meeting, and raise hell and be extremely distruptive, they will tell me to leave. not because i dont have the right to say it, but because it takes away the others rights to peaceful organization.

[Gotch]

First, I'm not seeing a lot of violence. I'm seeing angry protest, which by it's nature contradicts some of the organized protest argument. What little violence I've seen has actually been in the form of rather mild assaults on protesters by supports of the plan, primarily "organized" union members who have started to show up to "push back".

It doesn't matter if they are grassroots, organized, or the CEO of an insurance company, they have the right to do what they are doing. You might not like it or agree with it, I don't particularly find it effective or in good taste, but they have the right and it is of paramount importance that we don't start to infringe upon our own rights.

What finally happened with the guy who had the gun?

My guess would be that the local cops didn't have the authority to remove him due to state law, but once the feds arrived on the scene he was a short timer.

[Gotch]

Concerning who is busing "some" of the protesters in:

Are they actually going out and getting people and caching them to be "angry" then sending them on their way to the meeting? Or are they simply being opportunistic and taking advantage of the situation to bus people who are independently angry to the event?

[Gotch]

One more thing about "free speech". I've read opinions of the various restrictions on free speech and if I'm not mistaken this type of thing has been specifically addressed and as I remember it a speaker has no particular "right" to be heard. In other words, yes, you can legally shout a speaker down.